The School of European Swordsmanship Forum

Hi,

I was thinking about these terms. The person who makes the obsessio is the besetter, right? In Dr. Forgeng's book, he uses the term in english, "the student sets to the priest", so the priest is presumably in a ward, to which the student opposes in another ward/position from which he makes the initial attack.

So, the priest adopts first ward and the student makes an opposition and besets with halfshield, before attacking to the priest's head. The priest says "when halfshield is adopted, fall under sword and shield" so he does this. Does the falling under action have to be a response to the halfshield and consequent attack? Say if the student just stood there in halfshield without moving can the priest fall under from first ward and bind over the students sword, shield strike and cut? (or cut to the hand/arm, stichschlac, cut to the head, beat and cut, etc.).

I guess the answer is yes, it's a dynamic thing, and of course the priest can do these things even if the student comes ahead and makes his attack from halfshield. I just have this impression from a stepped drill approach that it looks a bit stop-go. Why can't the priest simply do a stichschlac from first ward? Ok, it doesn't control the student's sword or buckler, but it makes a threat and the swordhand is covered. This leads to another (probably obvious) question: What exactly are you doing when falling under? Is there an optimum action or a particular one to train when doing this drill?

More experienced people than myself might have a better answer, but even just as a learning point to myself let me try my hand at this.

Quote:Does the falling under action have to be a response to the halfshield and consequent attack? Say if the student just stood there in halfshield without moving can the priest fall under from first ward and bind over the students sword, shield strike and cut? (or cut to the hand/arm, stichschlac, cut to the head, beat and cut, etc.).

As I've understood it, the challenge the attacker (besetter) faces is to force his opponent (warder) out of their guard. At the time when the besetter falls from 2nd ward into halfshield, they're not yet at a striking distance, but the initiative has already been taken, and therefore the warder will fall under. If the warder remains immobile in 1st ward, the besetter will strike at his head. If for some reason the besetter freezes in their halfshield (or regardless whether they do or not), upon the besetter reaching halfshield the warder falls under and cuts them in the face, and that will be that. In this case there would be no reason for the warder to go into shiltslach (going there would require the besetter to bind first anyway).

Quote:Why can't the priest simply do a stichschlac from first ward?

They can, as long as the besetter is besetting and falling into halfshield. In the I.33 section of the Syllabus stichshlach is listed as one of the warder's (priest's) alternatives to falling under against halfshield.

Quote:What exactly are you doing when falling under? Is there an optimum action or a particular one to train when doing this drill?

When falling under from 1st ward, I step off the line with the left foot and simultaneously cut up with the false edge to beat aside the besetter's sword. Depending on how far I follow them with my false edge, I then either cut their face or just place my point in their face. I find keeping the correct distance from the besetter to be a challenge (I'm often much too close), but first step off the line helps me regulate the measure. Any mistakes I make here are mine alone, but this is how I find it to work for me.

I hope this is helpful to you in some way (and I hope I understood the questions correctly), but I'm sure there's still better advice to be heard on this. I'm longing to do some I.33 myself, and lately even just getting to the salle at all... I hope that there'll be another chance for inter-branch I.33 training soon.

Thanks for that Maria!