03-23-2009, 10:11 PM
Bored at work and looking for some food for thought for my next Wednesday free-training... I am just rambling here about scannaturas.
http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu/manuscripts/pcapo/EngCF.pdf
Describes the thingy pretty much accurately as far as I can see (though I am not sure what "lowering the hilt with the body" refers to). Now, the translator second note says:
Question is, does and should scannatura really disengage? And what all am I misunderstanding in the above? (My own answers to these and more provided after Wednesday's training...)
(I have always tried to keep blade contact through it. Orava says he disengages momentarily while going over. His scannaturas work, even in a free situation, mine generally don't, so...
)
To continue my own post, talked about it more with Heikki and Orava, and noticed CF actually says (same translation):
Emphasis mine. So does this choice of the word for "meet" imply that you actually go for the scannatura when the guy disengages, not after the blade contact has been regained? This would explain several things, e.g.: 1) why does CF not specify a disengage or any other way of dealing with the thrust other than the going to outside and meeting his sword in seconda, and 2) why am I always late.
http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu/manuscripts/pcapo/EngCF.pdf
Quote:Plate 13
This manner of attack is called the scannatura*1, which is done in the following manner, the figure designated as C having the sword of the figure marked as D stringered on the outside. The same figure D disengages a thrust at the face of C, and the same C, meeting the enemy’s sword on the outside*2, lowering the point to seconda, and passing with the left leg in one same tempo strikes him in the flank, lowering the hilt with the body and seizing his hand as you see.
Describes the thingy pretty much accurately as far as I can see (though I am not sure what "lowering the hilt with the body" refers to). Now, the translator second note says:
Quote:While it is not explicitly stated, C must disengage in some fashion in order to parry D’s attempted thrust to C’s face on the outside.He must?
Quote:It is likely that C disengages under to parry the high thrust with his own point high, then abandons the engagement by lowering his point in seconda to strike the flank.What? I can see someone going under to parry and then riposte with point low, but I am not sure I see when I would, and I certainly don't think I could work the pass into it, as the dynamics of the parry-thrust would be unsuitable for that and he'd have the time to recover too likely?
Quote:A less likely possibility given the order in which events are described is that he disengages over and parries outward and low by lowering his point in seconda, essentially as a transport.Now this I think describes how we do it, and I agree with the "essentially as a transport" part, which is how it feels to me - more like a counter-attack than separate parry and riposte, if you see what I mean.
Question is, does and should scannatura really disengage? And what all am I misunderstanding in the above? (My own answers to these and more provided after Wednesday's training...)
(I have always tried to keep blade contact through it. Orava says he disengages momentarily while going over. His scannaturas work, even in a free situation, mine generally don't, so...
)To continue my own post, talked about it more with Heikki and Orava, and noticed CF actually says (same translation):
Quote:The same figure D disengages a thrust at the face of C, and the same C, meeting the enemy's sword on the outside, lowering the point to seconda,
Emphasis mine. So does this choice of the word for "meet" imply that you actually go for the scannatura when the guy disengages, not after the blade contact has been regained? This would explain several things, e.g.: 1) why does CF not specify a disengage or any other way of dealing with the thrust other than the going to outside and meeting his sword in seconda, and 2) why am I always late.